Forgotten your password?
Not yet registered? Register.

Notes from All Over

To the Editor,

It’s my understanding that your local community is facing a $9.8 million dollar bond vote for school facilities. My home community faces similar issues and recently completed some new construction which contributed to tremendous financial problems.

I can’t speak to your specific plan but this is what I can tell you, based on my experiences with my local school district and others.

School boards tend to rubber stamp what their superintendents and teachers want, believing that is best for the kids. There is a tremendous amount of misinformation about how school districts can improve school facilities and a great deal of pressure from powerful financial interests ---architectural firms, consultants and the people that will sell the bonds. You should be very careful in dealing with them---they make money by influencing school administrators----they make money from schools borrowing money and make all kinds of promises regarding the outcome of your projects.

I am what most people would call a liberal activist. I teach part-time and am a strong supporter of public schools and teachers unions---but I’m deeply saddened to watch as school boards and teachers are hoodwinked into supporting building projects their districts can’t afford.

I’ve worked with activists from all shades of the political spectrum to fight unnecessary expenditures of taxes---waste--- and to assure that property taxpayers aren’t left holding the bag. Paul Dorr is a political consultant that helps to oppose many of these bond issues and I understand he is active in Ord. He is a political opposite of me but he also is fighting the same waste and has been attacked for it.

In our local community, the newspaper was forced to print retractions of at least one letter to the editor regarding Paul Dorr.

I hope you voters will examine all the issues carefully and bear in mind that it’s the teachers, not the buildings that do the teaching---and if your project ends up damaging the financial stability of the schools as it did in mine---it is teachers that will be cut---not the building.

Sincerely,

Bob McConnell

Washington, IA 52353


A Letter to VoxPop

See the edited version in the Quiz.


I am disappointed with the decision the Ord School Board of Education made to not give the patrons of the school district the choice to decide whether or not to provide the school with a new gymnasium at this time. Instead it seems they used the old politicians ploy of attaching a nonessential project to an essential project in an attempt to force the patrons to approve the nonessential project.

I feel that their decision might be considered irresponsible considering the seemingly imminent need for renovations to the high school. It seems the most responsible approach would be to offer the patrons a renovation project and a separate gymnasium project to vote on. I truly feel that the board would have no difficulty passing a bond for the renovation project, thus ensuring the continued safe operation of the school and who knows, without having it crammed down their throats, the patrons might very well approve the gymnasium project as well.

No one I have spoken with on this issue is opposed to the renovation of the high school building. The construction of a new gymnasium is a different story. During this time of economic uncertainty people are becoming increasingly careful to avoid excessive debt. With county indebtedness over forty million dollars, many residents are uncomfortable adding an expensive nonessential project to this debt.

As things stand, the bond will be one more issue to divide this community. If the bond fails, the patrons who opposed building a new gymnasium will be the idiots who don't want our children to be safe, comfortable, and happy. If the succeeds, the patrons who supported building a new gym will be the idiots who want to bankrupt the county. Either way, a no win situation.

Lana Kolar

Elyria NE.

Scream and shout ugly lies loud enough and long enough and soon, timid voters will fall into line.

That is clearly the strategy of the Our Kids 1st committee. Sadly, we really don’t believe that most of their committee members would normally act like this, if not being led by their radical NSEA union friends from Lincoln. This extremist NSEA has provided them with $2,000 cash and, if like in Kearney and Raymond Central, they are providing the proponent’s committee with yard signs, political consulting, and phone banking on top of the cash. And what is political consult-ing? Are high-paid public relations firms in Lincoln or Omaha writing the copy for the NSEA-backed Our Kids 1st committee? With this kind of commitment one must start to ask - “Who is really running Our Kids 1st committee?”

In our case, everything our consultant researches and writes for us is reviewed, edited and approved by CARE #5 committee before it goes out to the voters. Paul Dorr insists on it this way! After all, this is CARE #5’s campaign, NOT Paul Dorr’s!

Who is really dividing this community up? It is certainly not CARE #5!

We aren’t going to be distracted by answering every one of the OurKids1st committee’s nuanced lies. It would be a waste of your time and ours. But we will address some of the more bold ones, to give you an idea as to how they are hurting our community and neighborly relations while harming their own credibility in this campaign.

They call Paul Dorr a “High Paid” consultant.

They made that up. Paul Dorr told us he is willing to compare his 2008 paycheck with any management employee of the NSEA in Lincoln anytime!. His net business income for his campaign consulting work last year was $31,744. (He has offered to bring copies of his Schedule C from last year’s tax return - when he visits Ord next week.) With his wife and large family still at home, do you see this income as “high paid”? The proponents lied!

In a recent radio ad the proponents said Paul Dorr “intentionally” distorts facts and figures. Dorr tells us they have no evidence to demonstrate that aggressive false charge, other than more false accusations made mostly from sore losers, who themselves have no evidence.

On their website, they have recently stated Paul Dorr joined with other parties to sue the state of Minnesota. Paul Dorr has never been a litigant to any dispute in any court in Minnesota, state or federal. They lied again!

Sore losers in a campaign in Minnesota made this same charge of intentionally lying against one of Dorr’s clients during a school bond campaign. They filed charges in the Office of Administrative Hearings (an administrative court in Minnesota) on seventeen separate campaign statements. One of the statement’s made by Dorr’s client (against Dorr’s advice) was that the client (Victor Niska - a retired public school janitor) had once been offered a bribe by the lead architect on the proposed new school building. Wow! That’s a bold statement to make during a campaign. Surely Niska (Dorr’s client) was lying.

Off to administrative court it went.

“Nowww Dorr’s clients would be found guilty of intentionally lying during a campaign in a least a few of these seventeen charges….at least enough to tie it back to Dorr,” the bankers, architects and Superintendents must have thought.

What did the three judge panel find, after reviewing the evidence to all seventeen charges? The Complaint was DISMISSED on all charges. The sore losers could not prove one of their false accusations. But don’t believe CARE #5 or Paul Dorr. Check it out for yourself here and especially here.

The court had reached the same conclusion the majority of voters had already reached – that the committee telling the truth in this Minnesota campaign was Paul Dorr’s client!

More so, Finding of Fact No. 31 in the court ruling above found this, “In October of 1991, one of the partners of SGN Architects had four tickets to game 6 of the World Series between the Minnesota Twins and the Atlanta Braves. Mr. Nyberg [sic. of SGN Architects] offered tickets to the game free of charge to Dr. Jim Smith, Superintendent of the Westonka School District and John Klein, Superintendent of Triton schools. Because SGN was bidding for work with both school districts, Mr. Nyberg offered the tickets to Dr. Smith and Mr. Klein in order to gain favor with them.”

The architect was offering bribes to secure school building contracts and Dorr’s client proved it. Are we implying the architect from Lincoln has bribed Ord School Superintendent Max Kroger? Not at all. What we are saying is that CARE #5 is committed to the same thing our consultant Paul Dorr is - telling the truth. The truth alone does enough damage to the proponents cause, in the eyes of the majority of voters! And in his client’s case in Minnesota, an administra-tive court proved the sore loser’s accusations of Dorr’s client lying - were false. Even to the point, the court agreed the architects were offering bribes.

But here’s where the big government and bond dealer Bullies in Minnesota can `work over’ the little people of any community!

What would you do if you and your friends had to spend your own money (out of pocket) to campaign up against multimillion dollar special interests and against the large amount of taxpayer money that can be spent in so-called “information” campaigns by the schools, and you had to campaign against the local media (who are too intimidated to stand up to the special interests) - and yet the voters believed your message and you still won by defeating the extravagant proposal – and then the proponents sue you in administrative court making a series of false accusations, all under the authority of a highly questionable state law?

What would you do? Now you have to raise thousands of more dollars to hire an attorney to defend yourself against these false charges – as Niska had to do. And then you defeat them again, this time in court!

What would you then do if after the proponents have been defeated by the voters and by the court, they wait a few months and then turn around and schedule another election? Many would give up facing such bullying! Most of Dorr’s client don’t.

The law in Minnesota is not in place to hold liars accountable. It is there, mostly to oppress the Free Speech rights of honest taxpayers. By the mere presence of this unconstitutional law - opponents can be financially depleted just for the “privilege” of having to defend themselves against the false accusations made by the sore losers.

Keep in mind the NSEA-backed ad running in Ord said they regretted Nebraska didn’t have such a law like Minnesota’s. Is the Our Kids 1st committee and the NSEA effectively saying that want to bully Ord citizens too? Again, this Minnesota law is used primarily to suppress the Free Speech rights of taxpayers. It’s the protect the Bullies law! In their state, Minnesota voters should decide which campaign is telling the truth, not a costly administrative court

.

Victor Niska and several other Minnesota citizen’s committees had enough and hired an attorney to sue the state of Minnesota in Federal Court over this unconstitutional infringement. They only did it after another sore losing Superintendent was threatening to sue yet another citizen’s committee. Meanwhile, Niska’s attorney told Dorr that a similar oppressive law in Washington State has already been struck down by their courts.

So when the NSEA-backed OurKids1st committee says in their ad that Dorr’s clients sued for the right to lie during these campaigns. This, itself, is an ugly lie!

They sued for the right not to be bullied by sore-losers after defeating them in a fair and square campaign.

Ask yourself, why it is the Ord school district and proponent’s committee need to go to such great lengths to fleece taxpayers for securing routine information and to aggressively and falsely vilify us and our consultant . Why do they go to such great lengths to exaggerate the problems with the State Fire Marshal’s report?

We don’t oppose reasonable and prudent improvements to the Ord High School, but we do resist a campaign to take a few low-dollar needs and exaggerate them into big profits contracts for special interests! Especially one built on a high-pitched campaign of compounding lies.

Credibility is everything in this campaign! We hope you now see where the proponents are fast losing theirs. In the coming days, CARE #5 hopes to earn it in your eyes from the truthfulness of our message.

Sincerely,

CARE #5 committee

P.S. Though a sideline to our upcoming Town Hall meeting, Paul Dorr is scheduled to join us in Thursday evening, October 22. Listen to his friendly and straight-forward answers to the toughest questions the proponents can throw at him and decide for yourself.

Published Friday, October 16 2009 at 11:53am by admin in General

Comments

Note from OrdTalk admin: This section is for comments from Ord Talk's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Ord Talk admin agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Shakes - Friday, October 16 2009 at 1:21pm

So, not even PRETENDING to try and be impartial - again proving that instead of rising above what you think other media outlets are doing, you use the opportunity to do what is in your true nature - biased mud-slinging. At least the Our Kids First group made a site that was SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of supporting the bond instead of ignoring the mission of an unrelated site to suit the personal agendas of the site administrators. Instead of trying to put out the illusion that you are somehow "better" because you aren't "mainstream media" how about you just put it out there that you are running a personal "Against" campaign from the site - at least people can respect taking a stance.

admin - Friday, October 16 2009 at 3:57pm

We have reached out to Our Kids 1st and gotten....Nothing. Clay Burgess and Steffan Baker have spoken to both Sandy Bartholomew and Nancy Welniak and gotten....Nothing. We have told them that we would run whatever they wanted to send us, no problem, no editing, no charge. We have gotten....Nothing. Talk to your buddies over there Shakes and don't point your finger at us, we have given both sides the same opportunity, what more would YOU do?

comstock-kid - Friday, October 16 2009 at 11:48pm

To Admin:

I have composed a reply to "Shakes" that turned out to be in excess of 2500 characters. 6470 to be exact. 1187 words.

Can you contact me at my email address? I would like to send a copy to you. With the exception of maybe deleting a short paragraph or two, I don't think I can get it under the limit. Maybe you can.

comstock-kid

comstock-kid - Sunday, October 18 2009 at 6:59pm

Part ONE of THREE

To all: People who know me know better than to "get me started" and the various comments by "Shakes" throughout this site did it - he "got me started". My reply is a long (but I hope not boring) read.

In reply to "Shakes"

QUOTE (Shakes - Friday, October 16 2009 at 1:21pm) "So, not even PRETENDING to try and be impartial ..."

First: Just what biased mud-slinging are you referring to? What, if anything, in "Notes From All Over" is mud slinging? Or are you one of those people who just don't want to be bothered with the facts? I bet you believe that after health care reform all of us old fogies will be lined up and shot in order to save Medicare a few bucks, don't you?

Second: Would you mind clarifying your second sentence? Read it. Does it make sense? Here's your big chance to put this old man in his place, but darn it, that sentence does not make sense.

Third: Mainstream media? You must be referring to the Ord Quiz and KNLV. They are not biased? Is your head really buried that deep in the sandhills that KNLV thinks it is in? (I'm referring to KNLV referring to it's self as "The Voice of the Sandhills").

The administrator(s) of this site make it perfectly clear when they are editorializing, which is something neither the Quiz or KNLV do any more. I remember when the media owners in this town voiced their personal opinions as just that and they both gave everyone in the community a fair place to be heard. Letters to the editor and comments over the air were not censored. Personally, I canceled my subscription to the Quiz and stopped tuning in to KNLV shortly after they each came under new ownership. To me it was apparent that they no longer represented the entire community and had become subservient to the "bottom line". I don't blame them for that, 99% of the media in this country does it. But - I don't have to support it!

Think about it "Shakes" and you will understand that the "media" in this town is the very reason this website exists.

Fourth: Take a look around you. Read the archives on "Ord Talk". You will be happy to discover that this site was not started in opposition to the school bond issue. That might get your dander down a bit. But I suppose not . . . You mission seems to be to get every one else's dander up. Sorry, but I for one am not going to take your bait. As Joe Friday used to say "Just give me the facts, Maam".

comstock-kid - Sunday, October 18 2009 at 7:03pm

Part TWO of THREE

Fifth: Read the bond issue as printed in the Quiz. (Yes, I canceled my subscription. However I sneak a peek once in awhile; I just won't give them a dime of my money by actually buying a copy!).

The bond proponents proudly point out that "Private Donations" will be used to furnish the so called "practice gym". Oh yeah? The bond issue says that part of the money will be used to furnish the gym. Read it. Please correct me if I am wrong. I see a BIG loophole for the School District to buy what it pleases and claim it was donated. You think we are ever going to be informed of where every dime comes from and how it is to be spent? Maybe, but only after someone digs deep enough and a lawsuit or two are filed. By then the District will have it's new gym (notice I omitted "practice"?).

You see, I think the estimates for the "practice gym" and High School repairs were padded a bit. When the actual cost of the project comes in under the total issued for the bonds -- VOILA! Manna from Heaven and the "practice gym" will become a fully equipped gym without the nuisance of begging for private funds! Might just be my mistrust of Government in general speaking, but I believe that spending taxpayer money without taxpayer permission is corruption, and bond issues have a nasty habit of bringing out corruption.

I'm not suffering from "old timer's disease" just yet. I remember the big sales pitch for the last bond issue was that it would cost too much to repair the High School. Do you remember exactly how much the Board said those repairs would have cost? I suspect it was considerably more than they want for repairs this time, wasn't it? Were the estimates "puffed up" a bit in order to justify a brand new High School and gym, maybe? See what I mean about bond issues? Costs are manipulated to get what tax districts want, NOT what they actually NEED. Now I'm not accusing anyone around here of doing that, just stating that it has been done at times all over this country.

comstock-kid - Sunday, October 18 2009 at 7:10pm

Part THREE of THREE

Sixth: Just when was the School Board notified of the multitude of fire code violations? Suddenly we have a huge "safety" issue to tug at the voters heartstrings with, don't we? Only three years before the Titanic sinks again! My bottom line: If the bond issue had been split, I would have voted "yes". If the bond issue fails and the school is condemned, so be it. The children will suffer because a select group of adults in this community want a new toy with which to pad their resumes. I for one am not fooled. Kids First? Get real.

And lastly: A statement in the brochure that "Kids First" mailed out riled me a bit. It went something like this: "Hey old people! File for your Homestead exemption and you won't have to pay taxes on the new bonds!!"

My reply: Hey "Kids First", You think we are idiots and you can buy us off? You think a tax increase for us is the only thing we care about? Just who do you think will pay those taxes? Not only their own fair share, but also the additional taxes to pay for our Homestead exemptions? That money has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? That's right, you are talking about the parents of the "Kids" who work hard just to make ends meet and certainly don't need a higher tax burden! Repairing the High School is necessary - a new gym is not necessary! A small addition to the school would solve the "out of space" problem. Or maybe even putting some of the vacant commercial space in this town to use as "practice" areas would kill two birds with one stone.

Another "last" thought: One of my English teachers once said "Goats have kids, People have children, and don't you forget it!". I took her advice (it was either that or condemnation to hell). Even the name the bond supporters chose tends to irritate me so isn't it ironic that I chose a name to use here that contains the very word that irritates me? No wonder I'm so grumpy. Actually, shortly after I learned the difference between children and kids, a newspaper stuck that moniker on me. Been grumpy ever since.

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Sunday, October 18 2009 at 8:03pm

Quotes from KNLV web site story written by Andrew Mihm
Thursday, 08 October 2009 13:09

(QUOTE) According to the cost breakdown, 77% of the $9.8 million would be used to correct life safety code violations and learning deficiencies and only 23% of the bond would be used for a new practice gym and locker rooms. (END QUOTE)

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I read the proposed bond issue as printed in the Quiz as a legal notice.

If memory serves me correctly, 5+ million dollars are for repairs and renovations and 4+ million dollars are for the "practice gym".

Hmmmm - one source says the bond is spit about 77%-23% and the other says approximately 50%-40%. I tend to believe the legal notice myself.

(QUOTE) According to Don Fast, the State Fire Marshall's report, the school was given a 5 year grace period to come up with a plan and remedy the violations as spelled out in his order. There are only 3.5 years of that window remaining. (END QUOTE)

Makes me wonder if the Board had not insulted the voters with the last bond issue request and had instead simply proposed repairing the High School, that maybe by now the repairs would be well under way?

Did I say "insulted"? I certainly did. Everyone I talked to at the time was a bit upset that the Board had spent money to buy an entire city block and tear down the homes on it instead of spending the money on absolutely necessary repairs to the High School. It seemed to these voters that the Board was trying to pull "a fast one" on them. That impression still lingers.

The bond proponents say "Take a tour of the school; it's falling apart!"

(QUOTE) "Go take a tour of the school," said Josh Zangger. (END QUOTE)

NO wonder - Over $50,000 of money that should have been spent on the school went into the "money pit" next door. How many repairs were not done because "We're going to build a new school, no sense spending money on this one"? Oh my, but I think the sky is falling!


The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Monday, October 19 2009 at 12:24am

Just a bit of info on ourkids1st.com

Registrant:
Tim O'Brien
2601 S 9th St
Lincoln, Nebraska 68502
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: OURKIDS1ST.COM
Created on: 04-Oct-09
Expires on: 04-Oct-10
Last Updated on: 04-Oct-09

Administrative Contact:
O'Brien, Tim timobrien1@gmail.com
2601 S 9th St
Lincoln, Nebraska 68502
United States
(402) 440-2114 Fax --

Technical Contact:
O'Brien, Tim timobrien1@gmail.com
2601 S 9th St
Lincoln, Nebraska 68502
United States
(402) 440-2114 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS29.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS30.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

Just in case you wanted to know.-----

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Monday, October 19 2009 at 1:09am

And the above after I just read at Our Kids First" that their effort is entirely community run and backed. Very large community indeed, must include the entire State of Nebraska and then some. Either that or they don't know better than to let someone else register a domain name. Now he owns it and they don't.

Search for his name. Interesting, among other things NEBRASKA SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION and Business Development Manager at Nebraska Department of Economic Development come up. More details here timothyrobrien

OK, might be the wrong guy, but if it walks like a duck . . .

Also read with some concern that they apparently think a nearly $1,000 tax increase for someone who already pays $14,000 in real estate taxes is no big deal.

The"Kid"

comstock-kid - Monday, October 19 2009 at 1:13am

Oh, by the way, he also claims to be one of those darn consultants. :)

The"Kid"

Shakes - Monday, October 19 2009 at 9:11am

comstock-kid, obviously you are going to believe in the BS that gets passed around as fact whether it is debunked or not, so I'm not going to waste my time on you. I will say that a lot of the things that you have problems with could be explained to you if you had the GUTS to go talk to a board member and the SENSE to listen to what they have to say.

Only two things I'm going to correct here:
1.) The 4 million or so is not just for the gym. If you actually read the info it is for ALL new construction, which includes new cafeteria w/full preperation kitchen, locker rooms, drama/wrestling practice room, and the gym. Not sure on the percentage breakdown and what is included where, but just thought I'd let you know more is included in the 4 mil than just the gym.
2.) Tim O'Brien is not a consultant for this bond issue. Period. He is an OHS graduate with special training in computers so he knew how to set up a website. Where's the harm in that?

comstock-kid - Monday, October 19 2009 at 11:16pm

Shakes -

Can you make a list of the "BS" that is being passed around? I would like to know so that we could (perhaps) discuss the list. I will let you know what my opinions are, but first we need to sort out fact, fiction, and opinion.

Why does it take "guts" to talk to a board member? Something to fear from talking to them? Why do you assume that I haven't spoken with one or all of them? Do you think everyone who disagrees with the board members has not spoken with one or all of them?

Why is agreeing with the board the only "sensible" thing to do? I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is not "sensible"; we simply disagree.

For your correction item 1, point taken.

As for item 2, did I say he was a consultant for the bond issue? No, I said "he claims to be one of those darn consultants". That was a tongue in cheek comment; some in this town are campaigning to make "consultant" a bad word.

There is no harm if Tim O'Brian is either paid or is providing his services for free. The harm is claiming only locals are involved in Our Kids First when they clearly are not. Perhaps my definition of a local in regard to the bond question is too strict. But for the bond question, wouldn't defining a local as someone who lives in this school district be reasonable?

The "Kid"

Shakes - Tuesday, October 20 2009 at 8:04am

Kid - The "guts" comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you. If you go back and read some previous exchanges on the Viral Vent, the comment was made that a bunch of people on this site REFUSED to go and talk to the board for personal reasons, thus resigning to getting information second or third hand. Sorry, after reading it I see it read as being aimed at you. As far as being the "sensible" thing to do, I never said that, so don't put those words in my mouth.

As for the "consultant" mumbo-jumbo, how about instead of "consultant" being a bad word, how about you take the arguments for what they are - CARE hired a consultant from IOWA to defeat a bond issue in THE MIDDLE OF NEBRASKA. Does that sound right to you? Bringing in a hired gun from a different state that doesn't want the school bond to fail because it costs too much, but rather because he wants to see public education fail?

As far as your definition of "local" it might be a tad strict, because saying O'Brien is an "outsider" is a pretty big stretch - he grew up and graduated in Ord and obviously still has an interest in what happens here. Should we stop people who originate here from taking interest in the town? If you want to attack the "local" aspect of the campaigns, read where the first Vox Pop letter on this page came from and look where the CARE-hired consultant is from - makes OKF look pretty local to me!

serenity - Tuesday, October 20 2009 at 5:37pm

Yeah, I can see where the "local" STATE Teachers UNION thugs (even though they're located "locally" in Lincoln) could be considered by OKF as "from here". Pot and Kettle Shakes, pot and kettle.

crash - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 12:38am

snakes
Why don't you slither on down to the veteran's club on thursday and see this big bad evil consultant for yourself. That is unless your too busy reading the garbage the left wing teachers union at Lincoln has to say about him instead of finding out the truth on your own.
By the way, congratulations on getting your tail unstuck from the keyboard.

comstock-kid - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 3:00pm

Shakes - Reading through previous comments is a bit time consuming to say the least. That's neither my fault nor yours; it's due to the way this site is organized. Last week there were over 200 pages of comments and if I remember correctly, a search function. This week the archives are arranged by topic and I might be missing it, but there no longer seems to be a way to search the archives. But that's beside the point.

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 3:07pm

"if you had the GUTS to go talk to a board member and the SENSE to listen to what they have to say."

Shakes -

YOU said that and now you say it wasn't directed at me? If you tell me I have no sense because I won't listen to you, exactly what do you mean? If I say the same thing to you, how will you interpret it? I can listen to you, OKF, and the Board all day long and I may or may not come away agreeing with any part or all of what is said, but at least I "listened" to you.

OK, I think I'm beginning to get a sense of what you mean. But you have to understand, what you mean and what you say are coming across as two different things. You placed me in a group of people and called the group "you". Please, say what you mean, I don't have all day to figure out what you mean before I reply to you.

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 4:17pm

Shakes -

As for "consultant": All over this country both sides of bond issues have, and are, hiring consultants. I am an not laboring under the false notion that Board and OKF are not consulting with persons who are located outside this school district. I take no issue with that; they have a right to do so. But I do take issue with OKF claiming to be 100% local.

Defining a private citizen, a business, or a corporation as an "outsider" is a tactic used as a means of disparagement; a tactic I don't agree with. For the bond issue question, that means either OKF, CARE5 you, or anyone else who uses that term to cast suspicion.

With certain exceptions, in this country we all have the right to speak to or perhaps seek the advice anyone on this earth (or elsewhere) if we so choose. If that person (or whatever) happens to be an expert in the area about which we seek advice, that person is defined to be a consultant, NOT an outsider.

Since it is a legal entity, when the Board pays for advice from other than board members or employees the advice is considered expert and the fee paid is called a consulting fee. Payment of a consulting fee is always for “outside” advice”; it cannot be “inside”, that would be a conflict of interest. So if bond supporters want to use the word “outsider”, they should consider that they might just be the “pot calling the kettle black”.

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 4:31pm

Shakes -

Let me make this clear: A person may be "from", or have an "interest" in, what goes on in Valley County. But to call someone who does not live here a "local" is stretching the term to suit your own purpose, isn't it? I am certain that there are plenty of people around this COUNTRY that have an "interest" in our local community; by your definition they are "locals". For purposes of this LOCAL bond issue question, I don't think anyone will allow you to get away with stretching it that far.

Go to the OKF site and read the “Vox Pop”. The word “local” is used over and over and over. Not one person is referring to anyone or anything outside this community. Talk to them, maybe they can convince you that you are stretching “local” beyond the normal use of the word. But maybe not – they also might want to “have their cake and eat it too”.

The "Kid"

comstock-kid - Wednesday, October 21 2009 at 6:13pm

Shakes -

I searched the web using the term "bond defeat consultant". The only consultant I saw that was willing to work against bond issues was the "Iowan". He is on the the first page because of the word "defeat". Page after page contained references to governmental bodies that hired consultants to help them pass bond issues. In all of the ensuing pages I may have missed a anti-bond consultant or two.

My point is that if the CARE committee wanted to hire a consultant, they did not have many choices. I personally don't agree with Paul Dorr's philosophy on schools or much of anything else.

Personally, if I found it necessary to hire a consultant and the only one around was the Devil, I would hire it in an instant. But believe you me, as my employee he would be kept to the task I hired him to do and not allowed to stray.

I trust that the local citizens who hired Paul Dorr will keep him to the task at hand which is to defeat the school bond. I don't believe they hired him for any other purpose and will have the strength to put their employee in his place if he strays. Events in the next few weeks will show me if it was wrong of me to trust them to keep him in line.

The "Kid"

To comment you must be logged in.

All comments are property of their respective authors. Ord Talk in no way assumes responsibility for or endorsement of information supplied by third-party users of this site. We reserve the right to delete or edit any comment at our discretion.